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Episode 86: Loren Brill – Eat, Bake, Love

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All Xero Gravity episodes

Hosted by Elizabeth Ü

Loren Brill was diagnosed with cancer and started a game-changing cookie dough company as a result – but y’all can’t even manage to move your car every two hours so you don’t get a ticket.

After one trip to the doctor’s office, your whole life can totally change. You hear about it happening to other people but when it happened to Loren Brill, it unleashed her inner entrepreneurial dragon. When she couldn’t find the healthy comfort foods she craved, she realized she had to make them herself – ultimately becoming the founder of Sweet Loren’s, a healthy cookie dough company that’s changing the game. And you’re not going to believe who her first buyer was!

Loren shares her vanilla-scented journey with us – it’s all about falling in love with your passion, and making room for romance. But even though Loren’s story is sweet, there’s actually no refined sugar and plenty of spice.

Episode transcript

Host:  Elizabeth Ü  [EU]
Guest:  Loren Brill  [LB]

EU: Welcome back to Xero Gravity. I'm Elizabeth Ü. After one trip to the doctor's office, your whole life can totally change. You hear about it happening to other people. When it happened to Loren Brill, it unleashed her inner entrepreneurial dragon. Without giving too much away, Loren went on to be the founder of Sweet Loren's, a healthy cookie dough company that's changing the game. You're not going to believe who her first buyer was. Loren shares her vanilla scented journey with us. It's perfect for Valentine's Day. All about falling in love with your passion. Even though Loren's story is sweet as, there's actually no refined sugar and plenty of spice.

LB: Really Sweet Loren's started because I got sick. When I was 22 years old, right after I graduated college, I got diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, a type of cancer. I think anyone at 22 feels pretty invincible, right? You're young. You're vibrant. I also just graduated college. It's a huge milestone. I was really excited to enter the workforce and figure out my career, figure out what I was going to do with my life. I went to USC in LA, University of Southern California, and graduated and was actually dating a guy in LA. Moved back to New York to be with my mom and my sister for the summer, and then I was going to move back to LA. I literally had my plane ticket. I was leaving in a week.

I woke up one day in a hotel room, and the lymph nodes in my neck were so swollen. It just happened overnight, to the point where something felt really weird. I asked my mom. I was like, "This feels really weird." My first instinct was this is mono or something like that. She immediately was like, "You need to come to my doctor." Unfortunately my mom actually had a type of leukaemia, and so her doctor was an oncologist. When she saw my lymph nodes swollen, she was very worried. She was like, "Make an appointment with my doctor immediately." I had an appointment early the next week with her doctor. He looked at me, and he said, "You either have nothing at all or Hodgkin's lymphoma."

EU: Oh my gosh. Does this run in the family?

LB: No. They don't know why. Hodgkin's and leukaemia aren't related or connected. No one knows why you get Hodgkin's lymphoma. It's not determined yet. It's the most common cancer in young adults. I was like, "No. No. No. I'm moving to California, like Thursday. Like this week." He's like, "No, Loren. You're cancelling your plane ticket, and we have a lot of testing to do."

EU: How were you feeling at this point? Were you horrified and scared?

LB: No. I literally didn't believe it. I didn't even google what Hodgkin's was. I was like, "There's just no way. There's just no way." I was a yoga instructor. I, from the outside, looked healthy and fit and strong. I had no other symptoms, besides my lymph nodes, I didn't feel sick. Nothing showed up in my blood tests. So my doctor sent me for more tests and more tests. It took a month of just going to so many different doctors to try to figure out what was wrong, and finally they had to do a biopsy where they actually had to cut into my neck and test a lymph node.

EU: Oh my gosh.

LB: Then I found out. I found out that I had stage two Hodgkin's lymphoma and I need to start chemo immediately. I was a six-month chemo treatment. At that point, I fainted. I was just done.

EU: Were you also feeling kind of weak at this point? You had stage two cancer.

LB: No. No. Honestly, I felt fine. Emotionally, when that hit me, I went from feeling 100 percent, so excited to take on the world, to close to zero. I really didn't even know if I'd ever get back up to 100. I just had no idea anymore. You have a vision for your life, and when that gets completely turned upside down, you're just kind of like, "Woah. I'm gonna like sit back for a second and realise that, you know, there's certain things that are in your control and certain things that aren't." After that first month of just really feeling scared, really feeling super scared and super unempowered and super beat up, I realised how, A, that wasn't me. I never really resonated with those kind of feelings.

EU: Ahh. So surprising, too.

LB: I just sat down with myself and made a deal with myself that I was going to get through this and be healthier on the other side, and that I was going to use this time to keep myself as happy as possible. What did that mean? Okay, as healthy as possible, so I started to study nutrition and take nutrition classes. What are the things I love to do? I love to cook and bake Why not use this time, when everyone else is in a 9-to-5 job, try to use this time as wisely as possible. Really keep myself as distracted as possible.

EU: Ahh. So it was really about distracting. I can't imagine what it must have been like to have had your first sense of, "Wait a minute, not everything's always gonna go right," to be this cancer diagnosis.

LB: It was unbelievable.

EU: Then for you to actually see this as an opportunity to do something that you wouldn't have done if you had been in a normal 9-to-5 and perfectly healthy.

LB: That's the crazy part. Once you see that, you see how you can apply that into so many ways of your life and that there's learning in so many experiences. There's just so much I learned from going through this whole process. I think the most important thing that I learned about myself was how much I did not resonate with being un-empowered. I didn't want to lazy and just sitting around all day. I was like, "Okay, I'm not gonna just ... " I've doctors appointments every other day basically. In between that time, I could go to cooking classes. I can study nutrition. I can keep myself busy and productive. I started to study nutrition. I was already a healthy eater. This was the extreme of cutting out anything bleached and refined and hydrogenated and artificial and anything that I didn't understand what it was made from. Anything that wasn't natural.

EU: Had you done some research about cancer and how eating healthier is part of that healing process or part of that preventative process? How is this connected, other than that clearly you are a passionate chef and baker.

LB: When I was 14, my mom was diagnosed with chronic leukaemia, CLL. At a very young age I became very aware of cancer. She was a very healthy person. I think I just grew up with a role model of someone who really cared what they put in her body. Food was energy. What you put in, is really how you felt. If you eat junk food, you're not going to have a lot of energy. If you eat really good nutritious, energetic food, you're going to be able to work out longer, have a clear head, and do better work. Whatever it was. This was about me understanding how food affected me personally. Food affects everyone differently. I even asked my doctor, "What should I be eating?"

EU: It's funny how we always want to know that opinion from some outside source. We don't necessarily trust our own responses.

LB: That's the other thing. He was my doctor. He's the one who's supposed to know the answer.

EU: He's the authority.

LB: He's supposed to be the authority. Again, that was a very big aha moment. I remember he was drinking a Diet Coke. I loved him. He was a great doctor. He was just like, "Just eat normal things." It just didn't sit right with me. My deep instinct was I need to superpower myself. That doesn't mean eating fancy foods. It means eating real, whole ingredients. Having food just taste delicious, cause that's important.

EU: Did you set out to actually start this business? Or are you just perfecting your ...

LB: No. This was a personal need. Really what happened was I started to study nutrition because I became the authority of my own body. I just started to do personal tests on myself. I started to eat. I tried everything, streams of everything, to see what felt right with me and what was sustainable. I just fell in love with fresh, real food. Every type. I eat everything. Eating really high quality, real food. Making interesting flavours and sauces. Keeping food interesting and looking at it as energy.

Then I started taking baking and cooking classes. I felt like it was really easy to make a tonne of real food healthy. It was when we got to the baking section that I just was like, "Wow. I don't really want to eat that recipe. It's made of refined, bleached flours and sugars and tonnes of dairy." There's no nutrition in that. Yes, it's pretty, and yes, it's sweet tasting. At the end of the day, if I eat it, I'm going to feel empty afterwards. I'm going to have that sugar high, sugar crash. I'm not really eating ...

EU: Total glycemic index issue.

LB: I'm not eating nutrients. It's just sweet. It's sugar. It tastes like sugar. That sucks. I really have a sweet tooth. That's when I was like, "Well, okay. I guess I'll find some in a store. I'll find some in a bakery." I live in New York City. There really should be everything here. I couldn't find anything. Couldn't find anything that was so delicious and also made of really good ingredients. That's when ... It wasn't like, "Aha! Let me start Sweet Loren's All Natural Cookie Dough." It was like, "If I want this, and I can't find it. If I really want it bad enough, I'm gonna have to make it myself." I was like, "Fine." I was just really determined to create this awesome recipe.

I took over my mom's kitchen. Started making recipes. Chocolate chip cookies have been made a million times. How could I make it different? How could I make it better? I have a younger sister. She was really picky. She was my taste tester. We just worked on it for several tries and finally got to the point where she was like, "This is the best cookie I've ever had." I was like, "I don't want to ever eat another cookie again." I would be baking all the time. Creating new flavours. I'd be bringing them to my friends and my neighbours. Then my neighbours, my friends started ordering them from me. Any time I talked to them, they got so excited about the cookies. I was like, "I'm not the only one who wants this. It seems that everyone I talk to is super excited about healthier, delicious cookies."

EU: What makes them healthier? Are we talking about whole grain flours or what is it?

LB: A combination of whole grain flours. We have organic cane sugar and molasses, so really unprocessed sugars. We have healthier oils. It's non-dairy, even though it tastes like it's full of butter. That's kind of it. It's still a decadent cookie.

EU: It's not actually a meal replacement. It's still not a higher quantity of protein for the amount of sugar.

LB: No. This is dessert. No, but our peanut butter chocolate cookie, for instance, has 3 grams of protein per cookie. Just naturally because it's 100 percent whole grain. It's made of natural peanut butter. Yeah, it's a cookie. It's caloric, and it's a cookie, and it's indulgent. But guess what, there's 2 grams of fibre and 3 grams of protein in it naturally. It really is a snack.

EU: It's not a meal. It's still part of your balanced breakfast. It's not breakfast.

LB: Have one or two, and I promise you'll be fine. You'll be great.

EU: Everything in moderation.

LB: Always. It was when other people started to order them and get excited about them that I had this ‘aha’ moment of like, "I'm not the only one who wants this." Everyone I talk to is excited about this idea. Huh, that's really interesting. Sweet Loren's, the idea started to form. Thankfully I was totally cured after that year. I didn't end up moving back to LA. I wanted to stay in New York and be closer to my family.

EU: That really changed your priorities in life, having had this cancer scare.

LB: Totally. I just wanted to be close to my mom. I just was, "LA will be there if I want to go back." I wasn't ready yet. I was still confused as what my future, what I was even going to do with my life. My first instinct was, "Okay, now it's time for me." Like everyone else, so I could get a job. This was where I realised I was an entrepreneur. I was miserable in every single job I had. I worked for a PR company. I managed a restaurant. I was miserable and realised that the only way I was going to be happy, and I knew how precious life was, was to find something I could do on my own and really do something that was positive and had a big impact. Something that when I woke up every morning, I was like, "I am just ... I love life. I can't wait to put all of my energy into something." I just knew until I found that thing, I wouldn't be happy.

I entered a baking contest in 2010, and I won. The judge came up to me, and was like, "You need to do something with this." I swear I could feel this switch go off in my head where I was like, "Oh my god, Loren. You had the answer. You have these recipes." I'd worked on so many recipes by now. I quit my job, and I started Sweet Loren's. Just started to hustle. That was crazy, and it's still crazy. Jumped in. Whole Foods in New York was our first customer.

EU: They were your first customer? A lot of small food entrepreneurs would kill to have Whole Foods as a customer three years in.

LB: It was validating. I took a business writing course to start writing a business plan for Sweet Loren's. I was 26 years old. I loved business. Both my parents were entrepreneurs. I think I grew up feeling like I could do this. They can do this. I can do this. Had no idea about the food industry. Didn't have my MBA. Didn't have time to even get any of those things. I just was like, "I'm just gonna jump in and learn, and I'll figure it out." I started writing a business plan for Sweet Loren's because we could have gone in a lot of different ways. It could have been a bakery. It could have been a baking mix company. This concept of cookie dough got me really excited. I started writing this business plan. This guy in my business writing course actually worked at Whole Foods.

EU: Oh, nice.

LB: Restocking the shelves, in the overnight shift. We just became friends. I just wanted to understand how supermarkets worked. I was like, "Corey, how does one get into Whole Foods?" He was like, "Oh, I'll ask the buyer and let you know." I was like, "Great. I'll put it in my business plan." He calls me the next day, and he's like, "You have a meeting." Like tomorrow, with the head buyer.

EU: What? I just want to put this in context for people because, again, as somebody that helps small food entrepreneurs navigate the business world for 12 years before I came to Xero, it usually takes years of validating your concept with a lot of smaller retailers before Whole Foods will even give you the time of day. Then you certainly don't get called because you already have a meeting with them. It's like, "You got to get in with the buyer in your region." Then they might answer your call.

LB: I don't know if you want to say the universe, or just that I was ahead of the market a little bit, or just that I'd worked so hard in creating a product that was just ready to go. I'd worked for four years perfecting these recipes. Really the vision that I had for Sweet Loren's that could fill this need that I thought was missing in the market.

I presented to the buyer. I had a one-pager on our mission and our ingredients and what we stood for. I was like, "This is why I want to create a brand." I want it to stand for these things. These are our flavours. We did a really big tasting. He called me the next day and was like, "Everyone loved it. We've never tasted something so good. How soon can we get this?" I was like, "Oh my god, this is a business now."

EU: Did you even have packaging at this point?

LB: No. Nothing. Zero. I was like, "Give me a month." I thought in a month I could design packaging and find a factory to produce it and everything. It took seven months of working every day. In seven months, I was still friends with the buyer. We were able to launch. It was perfect timing because we were launching in holiday time when people are buying cookie dough anyway. We launched in Whole Foods, just a couple Whole Foods in New York. Then a month after that, I won a contest called The Next Big Small Brand for Food. It was this big New York City food contest. I won the People's Choice Award and also the Next Big Brand. That was very, very validating because, again, as a one woman show, just trying to figure this out, going off on a limb here, living at home, using my savings just to go with this gut instinct of no one's built the next brand name in cookie dough that stands for natural and sustainable and real and delicious and fun. I can do it. That is what I want to do with my life.

EU: Wait. Hold on. You've just skipped over so much of the hard part. You just said, "I worked every day for seven months." What did that even entail? Again, you said you thought it was going to take you one month to get all the packaging together, but it's a lot more than just packaging. This is recipe formulation. This is like-

LB: It's so true. I've blacked out so much because it was so painful and took so long. When I reach back into the depth of my mind, it was everything. First of all, I made a deal with myself. Again, I made another deal with myself where I was like, "Okay. Loren, do you really want this? How bad do you want this?" Every part of me was just like, "I want this more than I've wanted anything." I can see what the brand would look like on the shelf. I can see as a kid growing up in the next generation this is the kind of food I'd want to find. If I was a mom, this is the kind of food I'd want to buy. I could just see very clearly what the product looked like and what it stood for.

Then I realised, from the very beginning, how much of a hustle this was going to be. It was very apparent that nothing builds itself, that there were so many details. I found that really fascinating. I knew how precious life was. I could feel how meaningless it was for me to work for someone else in a job that didn't light up my soul. I found something that I felt like was a very unique gift I could give to the food industry or the world. There was just a story I needed to tell. I just felt like I was in my zone. All of this makes sense if I can get this off the ground.

I also just made this deal that if I was going to do this I was going to talk to anyone and everyone and give 110 percent. I jumped in and just started understanding everything, every aspect of what it takes to start a business. How to trademark a company. Are you going to be an LLC or are you going to be a corporation? Where do you get it trademarked? What type of packaging? What size packaging? What price are all these things? Who are you trying to attract? Who's your target audience?

EU: You basically earned your own MBA on the fly.

LB: Things started to move so fast. I, again, launched in Whole Foods, a month later won this contest. Even when I won this contest, I got interviewed. That's when people asked the story of Sweet Loren's. I didn't even want to tell the story. It was something in my past. It was something that was a scary time in my life. I really didn't want to rehash it. I didn't think anyone cared. I didn't think it was appetising, to be honest. Why would anyone want to talk about it?

EU: That's so funny. Now it's the one thing you realise totally sets you apart that everyone wants to hear.

LB: Exactly. I remember the reporter when I won the contest. She was like, "So what made you start this?" I was like, "Oh my god. Do I have to tell her the story?" I told her the story just being very vulnerable. Thinking she'd probably be like, "Okay, I understand that. I'll just like talk about the contest." She lit up, and emotionally we connected. She was like, "Wait a minute. What? Tell me more." That's when I realised that it humanised food and it humanised the whole product and it gave authenticity. It could inspire. That's powerful. That's part of the brand now.

EU: It's funny. I want to pause there for just a second because it does really sound like despite the fact that you're saying being vulnerable is really powerful, there's so much of your story that just screams, "Loren Brill is in control!" It sounds like even when cancer reared its head in your life, you were like, "I am going to take control of the situation. I'm not gonna let it control me." Here's this small business that you have no experience starting a business. You don't have your MBA, as you said, but you were absolutely in control. Even when you had cancer and you were thinking about nutrition. You were going to take control of everything that was going into your body. Are you a bit of a control freak? How is this related to everything?

LB: I wouldn't say I'm a control freak.

EU: Are you sure?

LB: I know. Now I'm really like, "I don't know. I have to think about that." I'm not OCD and crazy. I don't need things to be perfect. I can tell you that being unempowered, to me, is the worst feeling. I actually think that it's just our own responsibilities to take power.

EU: What does feeling empowered feel like?

LB: It's recognising what you want, who you are, believing in yourself that you can get there, and respecting your dreams or desires enough to be honest with them and hold them up and validate them, and honour yourself enough to go after it. I want big things. I want to build a brand name. I want to change the way America bakes. Hopefully New Zealand one day, too. I knew that, for me to sit back and be like, "That sounds like too much work." I want it. I can see it. It feels so aligned with everything that I care about. There's so many benefits that this could bring to me personally, to other people, it's the next generation, to small businesses in general, to the economy, to anyone who works for us. A million things. To not go after it, to me that's crazy. You're denying something that's so real.

The same thing with being sick. I didn't want to feel that way. I think you need to take full responsibility of going after what it is you truly want and pushing away everything that's holding you back. It takes strength. It takes perseverance. It takes tenacity. It takes a clear vision. It takes respect for life. This is precious. You have, hopefully many shots, but all we really know is you have one shot. This is it.

EU: I love to hear you break it down like this because earlier you had said that you knew that you were an entrepreneur because you hated every job that you ever had. I'm thinking, "Woah. Woah. Woah." It really takes having that goal in mind and knowing what it is that you're heading for and the impact that you want to have, that really is what drives entrepreneurship. It's not just because you hate your boss or you hate having a boss or you hate having someone else in control of your time.

LB: That's exactly it. It was like, "Wait a minute." I don't ever want to be told what to do. I want to have freedom in this world. I want to build my own life.

EU: Sweet Loren's has allowed you to do that?

LB: It really has. It really, really has. It's been an amazing platform. Huge self-discovery. Huge growth. I just continue to learn. Every day I'm just like, "Okay. When am I going to feel like I have mastered something?" There's just always more to learn. Technology's changing. We're launching new flavours. There's just always something new.

EU: When do you get to take a break?

LB: That's a really good question. I really am trying. It's really important to me to work hard, play hard because I'm always better at both.

EU: And you have a history as a yoga instructor, so clearly there's some point in your life when you are getting grounded. You're taking time out. You're meditating. There's got to be. You have come up with so many brilliant, really spiritual quotes over the course of this conversation, so there's got to be a time when you're tapping into something bigger than yourself and you're not just go-go-go-go.

LB: No, absolutely. Yoga is part of my weekly practise. I do yoga probably at least three times a week. I always have mindful moments in the day. When I wake up, I always have a very meditative morning before I start my day. Working out in general. I like to also run and do cycling and just sweat hard and really release stress and create crazy endorphins. Then dinners with friends. For hours, we're sitting on couches just laughing, not talking about anything. Eating delicious food that we all brought. Moments like that are super nourishing, just important. It sucks that business is always in the back of my head, and I'm always a little bit nervous and a little bit on. I think that when you're an entrepreneur, you have your own business, and you're responsible for something, that goes with it. It's like your baby.

EU: You don't get to just leave it at the office.

LB: Yeah. I signed up for that. I take full responsibility for that. I just try to travel as much as possible. My New Year's resolution for 2017 is to make space this year for love. I feel like I haven't really done that enough, and so 2017 is my goal to just have deep, real love and romance. I haven't made it a priority. I just know when you can make things a priority, stuff happens.

EU: So what are you putting out there as far as what you're looking for?

LB: I can't tell you that.

EU: If you don't put that out into the universe, how is the universe going to provide?

LB: I think I'm just looking for a great partner. For someone who I can build an unconventional and really amazing, positive impact, fun life with.

EU: Excellent. As you've discovered, the universe is on your side. I'm curious if maybe your experience with cancer, and you even just said that life is so important. Is that part of what contributes to ... It almost seems like a fear of relaxing or a fear of not doing.

LB: No, I think it's important to not do. I think it's important to be able to enjoy life for a second and not be distracted. I think that, and that's super important to me, because when I can tell you when I go-go-go, if I don't take that break, then everything falls apart. I'm just not as happy. I have a younger sister, who you know about, who is a life coach. She once drew this wheel for me. She divided into pizza slices and filled it with all the different things that are in my life. If one of those slices isn't getting love, isn't nourished and full, it's deflated, when that wheel goes around, it's not going to go around fast and smooth the way you'd want it to. That visual really helps me because life can't just be about going so fast and just putting everything into work. My life is so many other things.

In order for me to be happy, I need to be balanced. I think that is super important. I also that when you find something that you love, and that's also taking off, and that you're crazy passionate about, and then double that with, you've put everything you could possibly own into it, there's a high you get from it. It's growing, and it's exciting, and if you feed it and it feeds you. There's a combination of that too, where it's not like, "Oh, Loren, you have to work." The coolest thing is growing, and it lights me up.

EU: I think there's so many people listening to kill to be in that sort of a position, where they're actually aware of that thing that really lights them up. Then also have the gumption to do all the research that you did. You basically taught yourself an MBA in-process. We already talked about that.

LB: I was put in a situation where everything was stripped away. It was, for better or worse, easy for me to see who I was and what got me excited and what I wanted and what was important to me. I think if you get to know yourself really well and you figure out what you're super passionate about. Honestly something that where if you never even had to make money, you just want to jump out of the bed in the morning and do. Something that didn't feel like work, it was just something that you loved doing, that you wanted to spend your days doing. Then you see a need in the marketplace in something that you're good at and you're committed to getting better at. That's all you need. Then all it really comes down to is dedication and hard work. That's where the rubber meets the road. Are you committed or are you just lazy? I don't know.

EU: You just spelled out this entire formula for running a kick ass business as an entrepreneur. I wonder where the limiting factor is for most people. A lot of people don't go through that scare. A lot of people are really clear that they know how to do-do-do-do, and they might be very effective at getting things done, but they don't have that passion or the inspiration behind it. To have the combination of all of those things is pretty special.

LB: It is. Thank you. It is special. It is special. I feel alive. I feel fully alive. A lot of things have to go right. I launched this business 2010-11, before the market was really ready on a mass level, and I was able to stick it out. You have to have that love and passion. If it comes from you personally, then you understand the customer because you are the customer. You're just trying to fill your own need. This is not easy. It sounds really pretty and fun and definitely passionate, but it's so hard. I want to just reiterate that. You have to want it bad enough.

EU: What's that risk for you? What do you have at stake?

LB: Besides everything? My savings. I raised money from friends and family. I have all of the hard work that's gone into this. I have a team. I have customers that rely on our product and that we promise we're growing to new products with. I think most importantly, I've found my passion. I've found my dream. If I can't fulfil that, I can't even fathom that. That is not even a possibility that I will put into my head. That's really the biggest thing, is I'm betting on myself.

EU: What do you wish for your customers and your suppliers and everyone that's on the other side of your marketing efforts?

LB: I just really like this attitude of being partners. Anyone we work with is our partner. They are part of this. Our factory is our partner. They make our product. They ensure safety and quality. The bigger we grow, the more they grow. It's a partnership and that we all win.

EU: I love that idea. It's not just you. It's everybody winning.

LB: For sure.

EU: For those of us who are living in countries where Sweet Loren's is not currently available ... To be clear, we haven't even talked about the product. This is a cookie dough that's in the refrigerator section. This isn't even a thing in a lot of countries. New Zealand doesn't have refrigerated cookie dough.

LB: I know. Isn't that so crazy? It's so American iconic. But yes, it's all-natural, refrigerated cookie dough. You can make one or two at a time, even in your toaster oven. It's the dough. It's ready to go. It's my exact recipe ready for you. We have three flavours right now, chocolate chunk, peanut butter chocolate, and oatmeal cranberry, and some more coming up this year. So I'd say if it's not sold in your country, hopefully one day it will be. You can still follow along on social media or on Facebook. We're not shipping yet online because it's a perishable product.

EU: Right. That's tough.

LB: It's overly expensive to ship. It would be hard to ship it, internationally for sure. Just be part of our community. Be part of the journey. Tell people about it. Help us create this brand and just be a support. I love hearing about other entrepreneurial journeys and inspiration and answering questions. E-mail us and just stay in touch.

EU: Thanks so much for joining us Loren. This has been a really great conversation.

That was Loren Brill, New York based founder and CEO of Sweet Loren's. As always, I'm Elizabeth Ü, producer and host of Xero Gravity, and Alice Brine is creative director. Thanks also to Megan Wright, technical producer, and Daniel Marr and Jonny McNee, technical editors. If you've got any questions, comments or suggestions for the show, you can find me on Twitter @smallbizwithliz. Thanks for subscribing to Xero Gravity via iTunes or SoundCloud. We'll see you soon.

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