All Xero Gravity episodes
Hosted by Elizabeth Ü and Gene Marks
On episode 25 of Xero Gravity, we dig deep into cashflow, and get answers to questions like: How do you increase it? How do you generate an income to live comfortably? How do you keep things running smooth during rough patches?
“If you have situations where you’re not getting the consistent income that everyone would love to have in business, you have to make sure you have back- up resources and an understanding of the trends in the business that will allow you to get through the bad times, in preparation for the good times.”
Will Slade knows. Founder of accounting and bookkeeping firm Slade and Company, Will shares his cashflow acumen with Gene and Elizabeth, on navigating cashflow management and effective budgeting to stay in the black and out of the red. Right on the money!
Hosts: Gene Marks [GM] & Elizabeth Ü [EÜ]
Guests: Will Slade [WS]
You’ve just tuned into Xero Gravity: a podcast for small business leaders and entrepreneurs across America. Now to your hosts, Gene Marks and Elizabeth Ü.
GM Hey everybody, welcome to Xero Gravity, a weekly podcast for small business leaders and entrepreneurs in the United States. This is Gene Marks, and I’ve got my friend, colleague and co-host, Elizabeth Ü with me as well. Elizabeth?
EÜ Pleasure as always, Gene.
GM So we have a really great podcast scheduled for today. We are talking about – well listen, we’re talking about something that nobody wants to talk about. We’re talking about cashflow, I mean who cares about cashflow? I mean I don’t have a single client, I don’t know a single business owner, that cares about cashflow. I mean we’re just in this to just make a loss all the time and not have a successful business.
EÜ Here here…
GM We want to talk about cash and generating more cash for our business, and controlling our cash, because in the end that is the lifeblood of what our businesses are. And I have to tell you, you know Elizabeth, when people ask me why I do what I do – I mean I’ve been running a small business, a ten-person company for about twenty years. Sometimes my answer can disappoint people. Yes I enjoy what I do; I think some people have more passion for what they do and that’s fair enough — but I like the cash. My business has generated an income and a livelihood for myself and for my family over the past twenty years.
So whenever I meet people who say cash is not important, it’s all about what we’re accomplishing with our business and passion in what we’re doing, I mean, yeah, actually cash is kind of important. So that’s what this episode is going to be all about. We’re going to talk about cashflow.
When I define cashflow – and you know, Elizabeth, I’m sure you’ve got your thoughts on definition as well — it’s when people say how do you define cashflow: I think business owner know the answer to that. It’s all about buying something for a dollar, selling it for three, and keeping those extra two dollars in the bank for as long as possible, hopefully forever.
That’s how I define cashflow. And there are some business owners I know who know how to do that, and there are some that just don’t get it. In fact there are a lot of business owners I know, clients of mine, that can be running what they think are very successful, profitable businesses that become cash poor. Does that – I mean do you see that as well?
EÜ Yeah, I see that all the time. I mean not only with businesses, but with some of my friends I’m sorry to say. But it’s so crucial to have cash in the bank to spend on whatever your cash flow needs might be at any given point, and I think this is something that a lot of businesses don’t necessarily pay attention to. I actually start my book with a story about exactly this — a very successful business that ran into some cashflow problems. They ended up with an enormous order from Whole Foods actually, it was their first order from Whole Foods, and they suddenly realized they didn’t have the cash to create the goods that Whole Foods was ordering. And so suddenly they were looking at a last minute angel investment, and I said look, you know, by the time you’ve got the order it’s way too late to get the cash in the door to finance that.
GM That is the worst thing…
EÜ That order…
GM ...and I’m assuming sometimes those angels aren’t exactly very angelic when they come swooping in to a potential company that really needs the money, and are in a very poor negotiating position.
EÜ No, no, a terrible time to try to raise money.
GM Yeah, it really is.
EÜ So cashflow, very very crucial conversation to be having and I know that Will will have some excellent ideas for us, as I’m sure you will Gene.
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EÜ Okay, time to talk to an expert on this. His name is Will Slade, the founder of Slade and Company. They are a financial services firm, an accounting, bookkeeping, tax services, all sorts of financial-based company. And we’re going to ask Will some hard questions about advice he has on managing your cashflow, because the business owners that I know that get it and do it really well, they’re pretty tough about it. They’re tough about collecting money and they’re tough about spending their money, and they keep a very close eye on cash and it’s a very important thing for them to do.
“The most vital thing for improving liquidity and improving cashflow is really two things. A) budgeting. Make sure that you have a good solid budget in place, and that you’re following it, which is the actual key to that, as well as really maintaining a very sharp eye on accounts receivable. We find that if the accounts receivables get out of hand for us or any business cashflow sufferers, liquidity is not far behind.”
GM So just, you know, before we get into the conversation, I just got to ask: does Xero have any, Elizabeth, any specific things that help their customers with cashflow that is worth mentioning?
EÜ Well, there’s so many things I wouldn’t even know where to start.
But I’m really excited about the new automated invoice reminders that just came online recently. I think anything that you can do to increase visibility into what’s actually happening behind the scenes with the business, that is going to help you manage your cashflow. We actually do have reports showing that our small business subscribers that are using Xero, they’re getting paid a lot faster than before they started using Xero. I think that has to do with the great visibility that all the different reports in Xero give you. This way you know what’s actually going on, so that you can call up those customers that are in arrears in terms of paying you what they owe you on those invoices, not to mention setting up payment services, so they can pay you online using their credit cards. I mean, so many different features that we have built into Xero.
GM That’s great. Well we’re going to be talking about those reports, some of the automation as well. I want to ask Will about some advice he has on collecting money, using credit cards, paying vendors. We have a whole bunch of stuff to talk about. So stay tuned and we’ll be back in a few minutes to start getting into improving our cashflow.
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EÜ Hi everybody, we are here to talk this week about cashflow and
how to improve cashflow in your business. Heck you’re not interested in that, right? What business owner cares about increasing their cashflow? I mean it’s not really that interesting of a topic at all.
So we have a great guest on the phone with us today, who is also going to be discussing some advice and tips and experience he has about increasing cashflow. His name is Will Slade. Will is the founder of Slade and Company. Will, you’re based in San Jose you were saying to us earlier, correct?
WS We are, yes, we are in San Jose.
GM What do you guys do?
WS We’re a comprehensive firm that does tax, tax planning, business planning and bookkeeping for small businesses, and people with complex financial situations.
GM That’s perfect. So how long have you been doing this Will?
WS The company has been in business since 2006, so we’re coming up on our ten-year anniversary here shortly.
GM Yeah, congratulations. Now is this your Slade and Company? Is this your gig or is this a family business?
WS Yes, yes Gene, I am not very creative, so I didn’t come up with a fancy name. So yeah, it is me.
GM Yeah, the name of my company is the Marks Group, so both you and I are…
WS Creative types; both of us.
GM Yeah, so do you specialize in, are you more of a tax guy, are you more of a financial guy? I mean what would you consider to be your specialty?
WS At this point it’s really more guidance. I really like working with small business owners to help them navigate the entirety of their business. So I don’t know if I would say that one side or the other is a specialty. I don’t do a lot of the day to day, you know, boots on the ground bookkeeping anymore. I do a lot more of the conceptual stuff. But the tax side — I still am up to my waist in it most of the time, which is actually really enjoyable for me. I really do enjoy both sides of the business.
EÜ And do you have staff and contractors as well as yourself?
WS Yeah we have a staff of about thirteen people, so we’re actually pretty full here in the building, usually. We have people who have as many as fifty years’ experience in tax, so a lot of tenure here, a lot of experience. And I think that really helps with our clients, when we’re talking to them about things that we’ve seen in the past. With that kind of experience we’ve seen pretty much everything that you can see at this point.
GM I believe it. So alright, let me start out with this: so you’ve got thirteen people in your firm. You’ve been doing this for ten years, so you know something about surviving and growing a little bit right?
GM I mean what do you guys do for yourself in your firm when it comes to managing your cash? Is there any sort of specific things you make sure that you’re always doing to control cash? Any specific reports, any specific procedures that you make sure of, you know, I mean how do you make sure that you’re not overspending?
WS I just say no a lot, Gene. The reality is that, you know, we have really found over the years that the most vital thing for improving liquidity and improving cashflow is really two things. A) budgeting. Make sure that you have a good solid budget in place, and that you’re following it, which is the actual key to that, as well as really maintaining a very sharp eye on accounts receivable. We find that if the accounts receivables get out of hand for us or any business cashflow sufferers, liquidity is not far behind.
EÜ And so what sort of terms do you offer your clients? I imagine that part of managing your receivables is making sure that they’re paying you on time, and that you have clear expectations set around that.
WS Most of our clients are, if you’re talking about tax, they’re usually paying before they leave, which is great for cashflow. They leave with product and we leave with payment. With bookkeeping, typically most of our clients are on about a fifteen day term which you know, gives us some time, gives us a little flexibility. It really allows us to keep a very tight watch on that. If we see them sneak up above fifteen, twenty days, typically someone in the office— whoever is managing that account will have already reached out— just to make sure everything is okay more than anything else, make sure there’s no problem.
You know, obviously being a bookkeeping and accounting and tax firm, we already know what’s going on with them. So it’s really just a matter of finding out why everything wasn’t remitted. But with our clients, you know, we spend a lot of time talking with them about controlling your accounts receivable and making sure that everyone understands the expectations of your terms. When you don’t have the proper expectations with your clientele at the front end, you really set yourself up for a problem when you’re trying to get paid.
GM Okay guys, here’s what we’re going to do. All three of us. We are all going to offer the best tip possible on collecting receivables. I’m going to start. So Elizabeth and Will you can think about your tip as well. My number one tip, and I learned this, again Will, so you know: I’ve been running my business for like twenty years, and we deal primarily with small business clients, so we’ve had our share of deadbeats over the years, right? And I have learned some tough lessons. The number one lesson that I learned for dealing with, for collecting receivables, which increases cashflow, is I’ve outsourced it. I used to get involved in the collections myself and it used to literally give me like angina, you know, I would feel sick.
There nothing worse than doing work for somebody, you know, and then you send out the info, you’ve completed it, you’ve done the thing and then sixty days later you’re begging for money, and it used to drive me insane. It would take my eye off the ball and other things that needed to be done. So when people ask me, “Do you have any tips for collecting money?” the first thing I always say is have somebody else do it for you. Meaning like I have my book keeper do it. A woman named Susan. She’s awesome. She’s just calls up clients and reminds them and is on them, and I don’t have to deal with it at all. And it’s helped my cashflow significantly. So that’s my tip, Elizabeth, what do you say?
EÜ I don’t know, I think I’m much more of a carrot than stick kind of person. So I would like to offer an early payment discount to encourage people to take advantage of that, and get their payment in.
GM I think that’s great. I mean having early payment discounts is, that incentivizes a lot of people. That’s great, that’s great advice. So, Will, your turn.
WS I would say automating the process which is kind of a piggy backing over – on yours, Gene, more than anything else. You know, there’s a lot of technology out there that allows you to do things without having to do any of the actual work including being able to get the statement sent out, to get reminders sent out and also to also bill clients directly. We have a lot of clients who we have at our office who we have them on auto-debit. So every month we know there bill is going to be in, every month – you know, ten days into their 50 day terms we get a credit card charge automatically. So, you know, that avoids the carrot and the stick, it just kind of is – is neutral and allows you to get everything in and not have to worry about it.
GM That’s great. So Will let me throw it back to you because you mentioned automating this, and you mentioned credit cards. What are your thoughts on credit cards? I get pushback from clients saying I don’t want to take a credit card, I’m going to pay the fees and all that.
GM Do you encourage credit cards among your clients? I mean you use it yourself, right?
WS Yeah, we definitely you know, it’s a balance you have to strike.
I mean really obviously we would love everyone to pay us with checks. It’s less expensive for us. But you know, that also rolls into the liquidity issue. If you’re worried about cashflow to get the money five or ten days earlier, even if it costs you a per cent and a half, two per cent in fees, you actually have access to that cash instead of having to use your own credit to float yourself for that period in time. So for us credit cards are great, but for a lot of clients, especially if it’s auto pilot, they don’t have to worry about it, we don’t have to worry about it. It’s peace of mind, and consistent cashflow is sometimes worth that, that extra little bit of a fee.
EÜ And so Will, speaking of cashflow and credit, what about a line of credit? Are you distinguishing between a credit card and a line of credit from a bank?
WS Well obviously, if the financials support it, we always encourage our business to have a backup. Having a line of credit available is very important when you have cashflow concerns. It allows you to have something to fall back on, especially if you are having issues with receiving receivables. If you can’t get all the money in a timely manner, having a plan b that doesn’t involve writing a check out of your own bank account, is preferable.
GM It’s funny you talk about credit card financing as well. I mean it’s such a bad stigma attached to it. My dad back in the day financed — my dad was not a very good business man by the way — but he financed his business with credit cards and then, you know, was strapped with horrible debt that he had to pay off for a while. I still believe that credit cards can provide a good function for small businesses, even in lieu of a line of credit. I mean do you have any thoughts on that when it comes to cashflow?
WS Well I think with any business — and you kind of alluded to it — you have to be very aware of the payback terms. If you get yourself into a pile of debt and you can’t pay it back, then you have a problem. But used judiciously, I think having credit is important.
It allows you to offload — even by thirty days — which can make a big difference with a credit card when you actually have to pay that bill. I think you have to be aware of it — you don’t want to over extend. And I think that’s the concern, I think that’s where that stigma is attached, that people do over extend. It’s a slippery slope and you start to get a little bit more, a little bit more, and you’re never quite digging yourself out. And that’s usually either indicative of a problem systemically in the company, or again, back to the same horse that we’re beating dead: a cashflow issue where you’re not getting your receivables in in a timely manner.
EÜ So Gene, you seem to be a big fan of credit cards. But I know a lot of small businesses, particularly start-ups, that don’t have any credit history of their own. A lot of people are using peer-to-peer lending sites such as Prosper or Lending Club, and they are getting much better rates, especially if they have good credit records themselves. So Will, I’m wondering if you have any clients who have been taking advantage of that source of loan funds?
WS We’ve seen a few clients who, as you alluded to, were more on the start-up side, who have used Lending Club to get started. You know again, it’s all about what rates and terms you’re getting, and if you’re getting better rates and terms from them then you would from anywhere else. Obviously if you need to be financing the business that’s the way to do it. I think as with everything else, it’s all about how does everything fit into your budget? How does everything work as far as the business plan? And how did everything tie back together in the end?
GM That’s awesome! Alright, let’s talk a little bit about reporting here. So Will, from a financial standpoint or managing our cashflow, I’ve got to imagine your reporting for your business is not as difficult because you’ve got a stream of cash, right? I mean you’re getting recurring revenues from your clients. Not that I’m saying it’s that easy but it might be a little bit easier than some.
GM What do you recommend to your clients as far as reports that they should be looking at, so that they are on top of their cash and their receivables?
WS I think, you know, there’s a normal bevy of reports, income statement, aka profit and loss statements, are very important. Balance sheets for a lot of small business owners when they’re starting, out they don’t quite get the benefit from there. Obviously accounts receivable reports are very important. Depending on how you’re getting your reporting, I also think it’s very important to understand days to pay, so you understand not only who is paying when, but also how quickly they’re paying. Even if you cut your days to pay — five or six days could make a world of difference depending on the consistency of the cashflow.
So I think it all has to do with the industry, because if you do have situations where you’re not getting the consistent income that everyone would love to have in business, you have to make sure that you have the back-up resources, and the understanding of the trends in business that will allow you to weather the bad times in preparation for the good times.
GM Got it. You know, when you talk about income statements and balance sheets and all of that, sometimes those things take a long time to prepare, and no offense — you get an accountant involved, I’m an accountant too — I mean it’s like, right…
WS Trouble makers, all of us.
GM Right, I mean if you’re a business owner, obviously keeping track of your cash in real time, staying on top of it is super important. So is there any specific numbers or any specific financial, you know, data, metrics, that you tell clients they can get out of a Xero, or their accounting software, so that they’ve got their thumb on cash?
WS Yeah I think again it goes back to the cashflow statement actually would be a good one, accounts receivable again, for the hundredth time, I think is very important. I think that also, Gene, it really depends on the industry. I mean if you have consistent income but just not enough, that’s one issue, but if you have inconsistent income properly budgeted, it’s plenty — then that’s a whole secondary issue. So it really just depends business to business what their immediate needs are. We have clients who are all different varieties of business, and one set of reporting that works great for one group works horribly for others.
So it’s really about getting a partner or having a software suite that can understand the needs and be partially tailored to meet those needs, so you don’t have to wait weeks for P&L. Or by the time you realize you’re having a cashflow issue, you have $10 in your account. So those are things you need to really be aware of as a business owner.
EÜ So Will I’m curious, if you have any specific advice for companies that are very seasonal? Let’s say it’s a retail business and they’re doing the majority of their sales during the holiday season; we had an earlier podcast about that very topic. Or if we’re talking about farmers who have a lot of expenses ahead of the season and they’re not seeing any revenue until maybe harvest time, later on in the fall. Do you have advice for those types of businesses and how to manage cashflow?
WS It’s really important to understand your fixed costs and your overhead, and how that plays into those two seasonal periods. Budgeting again is vitally important when you have a very seasonal business, because if you’re earning all your income in the first four months of the year and you need to survive for the remaining eight, you really need to understand where that money is going — and by tracking your budget closely you can do that. And to look back to the Lending Club and to Prosper and the bank lines of credit — it’s important on a lot of levels — for seasonal businesses to have those things in place. Because if something does happen or an opportunity presents itself and it’s not in your high season, you may be at a loss. If you’re a farmer and your next door neighbor is retiring and it’s not high season, and you don’t have the resources to buy him out, which could potentially be a windfall for you in the long term, you’re at a loss. You missed that opportunity. So I think it’s really important to not only budget but to have plans in place if opportunities do present themselves.
GM I think that’s great. Alright, so now I’m going to put both of you on the spot again. I mean Will just mentioned before, that for the hundredth time we’re dealing with accounts receivable and managing that, and you’re right, that’s like a big thing. But you know, accounts payables sometimes get missed in the cashflow conversation and there are some specific things that people should be doing to manage their payables, and the relationships with their vendors. So I’m going to ask each of you guys – I’m going to contribute as one — your advice on accounts payable: how to best manage the cash going out the door. I will start with one.
Actually my first piece of advice on accounts payables is to only pay bills twice a month. Will, I don’t know if you have seen this or not. I mean I have clients — one client in particular — that comes to mind who pays their bills on the tenth and the twenty fifth of each month. That’s when we release payments and that way no cash goes out the door before or after. Our suppliers have gotten used to that because they’ve been doing it for years now, and this way they just know in advance. They can measure and they can control their cashflow in a much more well-controlled way, so that they can budget better and forecast where their cash is.
So sometimes I run into small businesses — and you must do the same thing with your clients — where they’re cutting checks every day or releasing payments online all the time, and you think, geez, there’s no control here. So my advice on accounts payable is pay your bills twice a month, and that’s it. Elizabeth?
EÜ Alright so I’m trying to remember the name of the book where I first heard this tip, and it seems counter intuitive, but my accounts payable advice is to, when you can, pay your bills early. Now I know you’re thinking wait what are you talking about, we’re talking about cash flow Elizabeth…
GM I love that…
EÜ But if you pay early and you’ve developed a really good rapport with your suppliers — if anything ever goes bump and you’re in a position where you can’t pay on time — you’re going to have that great relationship already established. So you can call them and work out favourable terms that work for you in the tough times. So again counter intuitive but I’m a big fan of doing business with smaller vendors who you can develop this type of rapport, so that when times are tough they will be on your side helping address those cashflow issues. They want to keep you as a customer, they want to see your business succeed, and if you can get them on your side I think this is one of the best tips.
GM I couldn’t agree with you more. I mean sometimes when I hear people saying here’s your suppliers and your vendors to finance your business — I mean these guys are so important to your business…
EÜ I know, it’s…
GM And you’re monkeying around with them, right?
EÜ No, they’re such key members of your community and so you want to be showing them a good faith effort to pay them early when you can, just to keep that good will in the bank.
GM Yeah, that’s great…
WS And I’m going to piggyback on yours a little bit. I really think that having those vendor relationships is probably one of the most important things for both of your guys’ reasons. You know, having terms is great, making sure you understand your terms as well is important. But we’ve had businesses who had huge growth and the vendors — we had great relationships with through the clients — understood that all of a sudden instead of spending, you know, ten thousand dollars a month, they were going to start spending thirty thousand dollars a month. And because of that they needed to change the way they dealt with them, and they became a much larger client for the vendor.
So I think vendor relations on both the upward swing and if you’re having a hard time with cashflow is vitally important, because if you don’t talk to your vendors and you don’t explain to them your business, they don’t know who you are. They don’t know what their expectations are. They don’t know if you’re a fly-by-night or if you’re a solid business going through hard times, or a solid business preparing to have extreme periods of growth. So I think it’s important to develop those relationships with both your vendors, and your banks as well. I think that’s another area people overlook.
EÜ Yeah, very key.
WS You know, having that good relationship with your bank and your banker is also important, because if you do get in a position where you need a little help or you do need to work out something, they are also in a position where they could theoretically give you a line, increase your line — do a lot of things for you that could help your business succeed and thrive.
GM This is great. Now Will, I have a bunch of questions for you and I’m trying to prioritize them. One came to mind when you mentioned your banker. Do you have many clients that are cutting checks? I ask this because I’m based in Philadelphia, most of my clients are in the Philadelphia area, and we’re talking about distributors and manufacturers and job shops. And you know, there’s a big country between New York and San Francisco and most of my clients are still cutting checks for the majority of their payments. Do you still see that and what are your thoughts on cutting checks versus online banking, and how that affects your cashflow?
WS I think one of the things we always look for is how does it affect our cashflow. We have a good number of restaurants, and for the majority of them we’re still cutting checks for all their vendors. Even the ones with very strong cashflow because that’s the expectation that was set by the vendors. I think a lot of times vendors are wary of electronic payments because even though they get them early if something goes wrong, it’s harder for them to track it. I think there’s that tactile thing. I see the check coming in every month from so and so, I know it’s here, it, goes to the bank. If there’s a problem I know that something went wrong before. Whereas with a lot of these online payments people are just a little hesitant still. But I do see a trend in the smaller businesses and businesses that are more service oriented, that you are seeing more and more people go to online banking and the bill paying through third-party vendors.
GM Alright that’s great. Look I appreciate that very much. Alright so we’re running out of time here, and so really in the last minute or so that we have we’ll – this went fast, right? — as we leave here our listeners, and are business owners like me, you know, other entrepreneurs and people starting up companies as well as running existing businesses, go ahead and give us your top two pieces of advice for managing cashflow. Ready? Go.
WS Ready, go! You know, for us we look at cash flow as the lifeblood of the business. I’ve always told people that you could be a profitable business but not make it because you don’t have the liquidity, and that is really part and parcel to cashflow. I mean you could have a company that is gangbusters and doesn’t make their bills half the time because of the seasonality of it. So I think budgeting is really an overlooked item by most businesses when they’re setting up, just wanting to get products sold and money in the door, but they don’t really think of where that money goes when they’re done. So budgeting addresses both income and the money going out, coupling that with the APAR reporting and tracking, days to pay for both you and them, etc. It really allows a much clearer picture and vision of A, where the business has been relative to your expectations, and where the business should be going. This allows you the opportunity to adjust before it’s too late.
GM That’s great. Well look, we’ve been speaking to Will Slade. Will is the founder of Slade and Company. His original idea for a name for the firm was The Will Corporation, but he changed it to Slade and Company and that’s how it’s been operating over the past ten years. Will is a financial adviser, an accounting consultant who provides financial advice to companies in the San Jose area, and I’m sure all around the country, that are good clients. Will, we really appreciate you being on the show. This has been a great conversation about cashflow, so thank you.
EÜ Yeah, thanks so much Will!
WS Thanks for having me Gene and Elizabeth. Thank you so much for having me.
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GM Well Elizabeth, that was a great conversation with Will, the founder of Slade and Company. Although I’m not really impressed with his choice of names for his firm, calling it after his last name. Although, you know, again my name, I’m The Marks Group, so...
EÜ You’re in the same boat.
GM Yeah it’s the same boat, so we’re both creative, whatever, we’re not very creative people. But he had some great advice regarding cashflow. I thought it was really good. He mentioned sending out automated invoices which is just so important to do, particularly if you’ve got a recurring business. Plus there’s so many capabilities in software like Xero, for example: automated reminders, right?
EÜ Right, right, and not only do we have newly released automated invoice reminders, we also have — for those service-based business that have ongoing revenue or subscription-based clients — we also do have repeating invoices that you can set up. You just put that info into the invoice once and it’s sent to your clients automatically every month. So there’s a few of the ways that Xero can help automate.
GM Okay so as a wrap up, I mean Will’s advice was great: having budgets, keeping track of your income statement, having good metrics to follow your cash that’s going out, following up with any open receivables as quickly as possible, automating your invoices, using credit cards where possible, not being afraid to use credit cards.
EÜ Right, and making sure that you understand the terms of all of the above is crucial.
GM Absolutely. So everybody that was a great conversation, thanks so much for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next week.
EÜ Yeah I can’t wait ‘til the next one — thanks Gene!